Parents, Wife, Respect and Obedience: A conversation on MSN

Brother in question says:

if one is married and his parents are of need of him, he is compelled to help them with whatever he has.... as his wealth are a property of his parents....right

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

There is difference of opinion in this.

The strictest opinion: yes, absolutely (as explained by Imam Taqi al-Din al-Subki in a treatise on this)

The moderate opinion is that:

a) one's spouse and children's rights are more immediate;

b) this is if they are genuinely needy and to the extent of their need, when they have no reasonable alternatives

The scholars also emphasize that excess in emphasis on parents' rights leads to excess in the opposite direction in non-fulfillment of one's family's rights (e.g. wife), and also can lead to bad treatment of parents...

This returns to the reasons of the distress...

Brother in question says:

I recall it was a disgrace for one to sympathize over ones wife over the parents

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

there is difference between propriety and rights.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

this is when sympathizing with one's wife leads to non-fulfillment of the rights and respect due to one's parents.

Brother in question says:

I don't know Sidi, I see people take the moderate position and take it for a ride

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

They forget that parent's right to "good treatment and respect" is absolute.

Brother in question says:

but when I see people from the traditional families, I see the stricter position

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

yes, but this very often leads to non-fulfillment of the rights of wives and children, as well as wronging oneself by losing out in terms of potential religious, and spiritual ways.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

about?

Brother in question says:

about not forgetting the Rights of the Parents

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

This is where balance, moderation, and wisdom are key.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

The Prophetic guidance regarding dealing with others is to, "Give everyone who has a right their full rights."

Brother in question says:

yes....but that is a very broad approach

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

This is why the scholars have said, "Sufis are haqqani (avid to fulfill the rights of others)."

Brother in question says:

which may suite people from Islamic countries but people from the West things need to be a little more defined

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

but it depends on situations, Sidi.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

Not all "people from the West" are the same, Sidi.

Brother in question says:

these are my observations, and as I have been recently married...I am trying to draw some principles

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

Dealing with people's questions makes it obvious by just reading the tone and concerns of a question whether the person is from the UK or America; whether they have had a conservative or "open" upbringing; etc...

Brother in question says:

either they are from traditional families or not

Brother in question says:

example....Shiekh Mulla Fulani's or Sheikh Akhdari's family and other peoples families

Brother in question says:

I see them as role models....

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

but they are exceptional cases.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

Sh. Mulla Fulani's family are back-home Damascenes. They run a traditional household. You cannot expect the same things from people brought up "normally" in the West.

Brother in question says:

well... there you go

Brother in question says:

that's the standard though...no?

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

And Sh. Mulla Fulani is very 'clear-cut' in how he deals with things... this is his nature... and role-expectations between Arab and Indo-Pak families are very different.

There are broad principles and particular guidelines that the Shariah has given.

These can be operationalized in numerous ways, depending on context, people and situations.

Brother in question says:

I don't understand Sidi

based on their "ways", you see the same with the earlier Muslims

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

The Shariah, across the madhhabs, did not define every aspect of human relations in terms of daily minutiae.

Brother in question says:

the respect, the honour, and the principles

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

Rather, it lay down the rights, responsibilities, manners, and proper ways of doing things.

Brother in question says:

that's true....that were the Islamic societies played a role

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

No... there are clear variances, Sidi, from family to family, and from social circumstance to social circumstances...

Brother in question says:

True, but there are also commonalities as well

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

rural families differ from urban ones... those living as social, cultural or religious minorities often differ from those living in 'home' societies...

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

yes, these return to general principles.

Brother in question says:

the respect and character

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

And, at the end of the day, one cannot control the voluntary moral behavior of others...

Brother in question says:

true

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

therefore, while one may have a certain model behavior one would like, operationalizing that in a practical context where one's spouse / parents think otherwise requires wisdom and tact.

Brother in question says:

Sidi...the reason I am discussing this is that I want this in my own family....

meaning me, my wife, and my insha'Allah children in the future

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

But you cannot impose your vision on your wife...

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

and she has at least as much influence on the children as you. (normally, in the initial years, much much more)

Brother in question says:

well...as being the Amir of the family...

there are certain guidelines....

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

A good leader leads: they do not force.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

There is only so much you can DEMAND from your wife.

Brother in question says:

i.e.- the fiqh being followed and certain principles

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

The rest is best resolved through positive reinforcement, wisdom, tact, love, and excellence in dealings.

Brother in question says:

the demand...is from the Shariah though

Brother in question says:

I will give you an example

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

At the end of the day, the wife can simply choose to follow the mainstream position and say that it is not obligatory to obey the husband in anything except letting him have sex with her. Even there, she simply has to "make herself available"... obeying him even in bed beyond that is not obligatory.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

sorry for being blunt, but it makes a point.

Brother in question says:

is that the Hanafi position

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

No.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

However, no one is religiously bound to stick to one madhhab in all their affairs.

Brother in question says:

true true

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

Even if they say that they will...

Brother in question says:

but if one follows Sunna and follows hadith books....

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

this is why "imposing" one's vision for family life is feeble and largely futile.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

it will only lead to resistance and tension.

Brother in question says:

so what should a husband do Sidi....let the wife do what she wants

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

The Prophet himself did not order his family around.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

He was a leader at home.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

A wise husband gets his way 90% of the time, without the wife feeling like she is being told what to do...

Brother in question says:

do remember though Sidi...the society back then was very different

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

I am talking about now, Sidi.

Brother in question says:

in this society...well at least in Canada

Brother in question says:

women in general work differently

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

A husband cannot impose "being nicer" to his parents on the wife...

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

this sort of stuff is achieved through subtle means.

Brother in question says:

women here want to work , want their own car, and also want their own physical home

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

So?

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

This sort of stuff cannot be solved through imposition: it leads to tension and trouble.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

Rather, things should be discussed through and resolved through mutual shura...

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

but discussion on the podium of "mawwadatan wa rahma" [love and mercy], not adversarial argument.

Brother in question says:

true

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

One thing that works well with in married life is that you really should not try to get your way in everything…

Brother in question says:

like I said though Sidi, such an approach can only come by experience

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

Let them make the decisions in things that matter to them and don’t matter to you, and make it clear that their opinions are worth a lot to you by following the sunna of the Beloved of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) and consulting them in all important matters… then, if you need to take a ‘stance’, it will be much easier…

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

so let them make the general decisions regarding household matters… if you let them have their way in this, then they’ll let you have your way in what you want…

Brother in question says:

What about the wife being rude, abrupt and disrespectful? I know this is normal occurrence though, as I have heard similar things from brothers who we highly respect…

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

This is where you have to a) avoid getting into situations that lead to your wife disobeying ; b) getting her to obey you happily...

Brother in question says:

but its very difficult on the nafs....and certain things come after some experience

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

It is like tarbiya, really: have a long term goal, and build on the positives, step by step, without her directly realizing, through +ve reinforcement.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

Obedience is very hard for Western sisters.

You can either DEMAND it and have a rocky and miserably legal marriage,

Or you can give in and have a marriage run in a way distant from the guidance of the Beloved of Allah,

Or...

You can work on it, with wisdom and love, as the Prophet would have [Allah bless him and give him peace], step by step.

There are ideals. We do not forget them. But we recognize realities and work towards the ideals as the Prophet instructed: "Be upright, do your best, and be of glad tidings."

Even in western management theory, they state that the best leadership is through inspiration. After that, through rewards. The least effective, in the long term (and fraught with negative results) is ordering around.

You see this in traditional families, too...

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) instructed us to look at the good traits and ways of one's wife... and to overlook her errors...

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

Also, a marriage whose dealings are based on law and limits is a sure source of misery.

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

Marriages can only be happy when lived on the Qur'anic paradigm of "love and mercy"

Faraz Rabbani (www.sunnipath.com) says:

one sees this, in radically different ways, in all successful marriages.

Wassalam,

Faraz Rabbani